True. BUT they are advertised as "The lastest comic book movie adaption" or Based on the Graphic novel by..." If you asked members of the general public who had seen the films are these based on a comic - most would say "Yes". And the point is more that the publics perseption of "comic book movies" has changed, presisly becasue of films like Sin City, 300, Road to Perdition, Hellboy etc etc.
Erm... in a word, no.
As you work in a comic shop, that's the view you're getting but you really need to move beyond the confines of the shop to see how these movies are perceived.
Sin City, 300 and Hellboy never hid their comic book roots. The former two often had 'Based on the graphic novel by Frank Miller' thrown into the advertising somewhere but it wasn't the prominent part of the advertising and, in no way, has opened the mainstream audience's eyes to the comic book world.
Sin City is a glorious movie but, had there been no comic book behind the movie, it sitll would've enjoyed success in the way that a cult film can. Sin City is ultimately regarded as a very good cult movie and an excellent example of the genre. Mainstream audiences enjoyed it but not because it was adapted from a comic book. It was because of the fact it was a damned good film and very slickly made. Hell, it looked different - a big selling point for any film.
300 sells itself as a historical war movie first and foremost. In my experience, very few people know or care that it's adapted from a comic book. They're more concerned with the fact it's an historical war movie and therefore suits their own movie-going tastes.
Interesting you use Hellboy as an example as his visuals mark him out to the mainstream audience as a comic book character. The film didn't perform as well as many other comic book movies but made enough to make a profit and spawn a probable sequel.
As for Road to Perdition - no one, and I mean no one but the most avid comic book diehard, would know it was adapted from a comic book. The film sells itself without ever having to draw upon its comic book roots. The same applies to A History of Violence, incidentally.
You say that the public's perception of comic book movies have changed but I would then ask how many of said public is even aware that these films came from comic books? The general public sees a super hero movie like Spider-Man as a comic book movie, not Road to Perdition.
In the US, a small TV program that you may have heard of has done more in promoting the comic book industry than any of the examples you've given above. It's performed beyond all expectations and has surprised the audience with its strong storytelling and compelling characterisation. Good acting and direction hasn't hurt either. The program I'm referring to...? Heroes.
As for Titans... it's another Catwoman for Warner Bros if you ask me. _________________ With Great Power, Comes Great... Potential to ROB BANKS!!! HAHAH! THAT'S HOW TO BEAT THE RECESSION!!!
Have to agree with Boy Wonder on the Road to Perdition, Hellboy and History of Violence. I personally didn't realise Perdition or Violence were comics until I found a reference online somewhere. Hellboy(Sequel in production btw) I did know but for the most part it wasn't hyped or promoted upon.
And Teen Titans could well be Catwoman 2008.... though if its that bad the director needs a bullet between the eyes _________________ Pro Massacre Boy!
I am not referring to people who come in the shop - or at least i wasn't - I will do in a sec now you mention it though.
I was refering to the people who live on my council estate. The groups of kids that were likley to beat up anyone they though was a "comic geek" are now the onces watching the films. And talking about them. And telling me how cool they are.
And I don't remember saying that the comic roots of the books were advertised in a prominante way. i just meant that they are known and accepted. A film is no longer expected to be crap because of links to the comic world. And for the record, Jonathon Ross always mentions the comic conection of a film on Film 2000 and whatever.
Both Sin City and 300 sold the comics they were based on in an unpresidented way. Was it because the content was different to what people were expecting from a comic? Yes. But they are still comic book films and that fact HAS changed the way comics are percieved. Indeed it started before that with Batman Begins. Lots of people comented on that film as a darky, more gritty and realistic comic film.
And as for working in the shop? Well theres your proof. You see up until recently the majority of people who used a comic shop were "hardcore" fans. People who had always brought and would always buy a certain comic. Along with your students etc.
Now however you get members of the public buying graphic novels instead of going to Waterstones and buying the latest Stephen King. People who have heard of certain books and are intregied enough to try them. this has happened more and more within the last 5 years. Before that it would happen maybe 2 or three times a year. If someone heard that a comic was good they would just dismiss it as an inferior art form.
Hell, graphic novels now get reviewed in publications like the New York Times and the Independent. If thats not a change in perception I don't know what is.
Oh and for the record. The second ever person (after Manny no less) to discuss with me that Road To Perdition was a film based on a graphic novel was a teenager from the estate. Turns out when you hire a film and have no money you read all the credits. Even if you have not read a comic since you were seven.....
Just because people do not buy a monthly comic it no longer means that they look down upon those who do.
If you asked members of the general public who had seen the films are these based on a comic - most would say "Yes".
When referring to films like Road to Perdition, A History of Violence and, albeit to a lesser extent, Sin City & 300, most will still say No (there will be more who will say Yes if you asked specifically to the latter two but not, I think, a majority).
I'm aware that the general public is more receptive to comic books now. They're no longer dismissed by all as kiddie books but that's more down to films like Spider-Man, Batman Begins and X-Men rather than those named above, particularly the first two.
Here's what I've noticed. Movie studios are no longer hiding the fact that these films are derived from comic books (graphic fiction sounds better). Sin City and 300 are good points to that as both overtly advertised their comic book connections but the success of either film had more to do with the film finding an audience than relying upon their comic book connections.
The cool factor that comes into play with comics has less to do with those films (Sin City & 300) than you're giving them credit for although they have helped the cause. X-Men began the good work back in 2000 and Spider-Man helped to solidify that. The annual release of at least one super hero movie has helped fuel the cause even further.
Why?
Because audiences no longer see the super hero set as just 'good guys fight the bad guys in brightly coloured yellow spandex'. They see fully articulated and realised characters on screen who they can empathise with. They see and are drawn into compelling storylines. I get the impression that Spider-Man and Batman have achieved more in this realm than any other character. The fights are then a CGI sensation of uber-cool. The super hero films are what is promoting the comic book cause more than anything else.
Sin City and 300 are superior films (although not seen the latter - I just have a lot of faith in Frank Miller) but both would have succeeded anyway had they, the films, been exactly what they were, without drawing upon a comic book as its source material (I'm saying here: 'What if there was no comic book source?'). They succeeded because they looked and felt different to what was out there. Superior acting, superior direction. And a twist on every other plain film you see at the multiplex.
Just so you're aware, I'm disagreeing with the text I highlighted in my earlier post because I just don't see what you said as the case. I'm pleased to see that someone on your estate recognised Road to Perdition as a comic book movie, but I've spoken to a lot of people at work who liked the film - and they had no idea it came from a comic book. Perhaps it has more to do with who we're associated with outside of the comic book world and that, in turn, then reflects the differing opinions we're giving?
I'm sure you are aware that Jonathan Ross is a comic book enthusiast - he promoted Ultimates on his chat show once just because he happened to refer to it in an interview that had absolutely nothing to do with comics.
I'm not saying that the films you're referring to aren't changing the industry but they're doing so in a far smaller way than you seem to think you are. Credit the bigger films named above (Spider-Man, X-Men, Batman Begins) for doing that. _________________ With Great Power, Comes Great... Potential to ROB BANKS!!! HAHAH! THAT'S HOW TO BEAT THE RECESSION!!!
When referring to films like Road to Perdition, A History of Violence and, albeit to a lesser extent, Sin City & 300, most will still say No (there will be more who will say Yes if you asked specifically to the latter two but not, I think, a majority).
I have yet to meet one person from any back ground that has seen either of these films and is not aware that they are based on graphic novels.
Hell, even my Dad, who hasn't seen 300 and couldn't be more - Comics are for kids - Its only a piece of paper - type person and who has not yet seen 300 knows its from a graphic novel and even expressed a reluctent interest at reading it. This anouncment is a bit like the Queen anouncing in her Christmas speech that she is bi sexual and will be holding a "every one is welcome gang bang" at buck palace on new years eve!!! (CALM DOWN REAPER - its an example, not actually happening!!!!)
And I think we need to straghten a few things up.
I agree that X-Men, Spider-man etc has shown the world that films based on comics can be good. And made loads of money because of it. However Sin City, 300 etc have shown people that Comics are not just about super heroes for kids.
Quote:
I'm sure you are aware that Jonathan Ross is a comic book enthusiast - he promoted Ultimates on his chat show once just because he happened to refer to it in an interview that had absolutely nothing to do with comics.
Thats the whole point. He never misses an opertunity to talk about comics and always refers to comic links when they are there. So, as long as he mentioned Road to Perditian, history of Violence (and I seem to remember him doing so) etc,etc he would have said something along the lines of "based on the comic/graphic novel of the same name". Now, not everyone will remember that, however subconsisly (god i really can not spell!!) they will be aware that although it is a comic it is not a spandex type thing. this WILL alter their peception on comics and comic book films.
So, back to the original point. When going to see a film based on a comic book, people will no longer be expecting a super hero slugfest. And even if thats what they get, they will gove it a chance to see if it's any good before dimissing it.
I would hope that the studios havve seen how sucsessful adaptions that stay faithful to their roots are (I live in hope) and would not choose to do another "Catwomen" to one of their properties.
As Teen Titans have some very, very, very good stories to draw a upon I submit that this could be a cracking film that far exceeds expectations.
I have yet to meet one person from any back ground that has seen either of these films and is not aware that they are based on graphic novels.
And I have yet to meet one person, besides the obvious (you, Manny), who is aware that Road to Perdition and A History of Violence are sourced from comics. They're more aware about Sin City and 300... but that's because I've told them!
Like I said in my previous post, it could have something to do with who we socialise with. The people I work with are generally unaware of these kinds of things and are more into soaps and Big Brother; the friends I have away from all things comics usually rely on me to tell them these things.
Captain Opinion wrote:
As Teen Titans have some very, very, very good stories to draw a upon I submit that this could be a cracking film that far exceeds expectations.
Well, my expectations are so low right now that it can only exceed them. It all depends on how they approach the project. If they go with the sidekicks notion, the film will fall flat on its face as any mainstream audience are more likely to be interested in the heroes from which they're derived rather than the juniors; if it's anything similar to the cartoon, it may work.
I just wish Warner Bros would do more work in finding movies for DC's bigger characters rather than focus on some of the more obscure ones (I mean, Metal Men. Come on, the Warner Bros execs musta been stoned that day!).
So, does this mean we've kissed and made up...?
Or should we find something else to argue about now...?
Like... bet The Queen's really bi-sexual! _________________ With Great Power, Comes Great... Potential to ROB BANKS!!! HAHAH! THAT'S HOW TO BEAT THE RECESSION!!!
See - based on the Graphic novel right across the poster!
Thats a film from Sony about Vampires by the way.
Now there is no way that would have been advertised like that 10 or even 5 years ago - indeed they would have tried to distance themselves from the source as much as possible. "No Vampire fan is going to want to know they are watching a movie about a comic!!"
But like I said - the publics perseption of comics has changed so now its ok.....
So, because of one poster, you declare you're right.
And you are. But only to a certain extent.
Since our last posts concerned public awareness with whom we socialise with (beyond each other), I'm not accepting your checkmate until after the film is released.
At which point, I will ask if they were aware of the original source.
Then, and only then, will I concede... although, by then, we will have had a Fantastic Four movie in addition to Spider-Man.
Movie buffs, comic fans and web geeks will know of the source material but I'm talking about an audience that doesn't fall into any of those categories. Your average movie-goer who goes to the cinema because the film in question is about vampires rather than 'Oh, it's been adapted from a comic book, I must see that!'.
Overall awareness of the comic industry is increasing, granted, but still not at the levels you're speaking for nor entirely for the reasons you're stating. But I've gone into this already and I really can't be bothered anymore (I need to get back to work, for starters).
More is still needed though. We shouldn't start taking for granted this increased mainstream perception of the comic industry; if anything, we now need to work harder to maintain our overall current exceptional quality to those who've been drawn in and to attract even greater audiences.
One poster does not change the perception of an industry. It's a small part of a far larger puzzle that is drawing inexorably nearer to its solution.
_________________ With Great Power, Comes Great... Potential to ROB BANKS!!! HAHAH! THAT'S HOW TO BEAT THE RECESSION!!!
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