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Batmanuel

News Item that Affects YOU.

OK, Now i am angry.
I don't believe it, The chancellor drops VAT by 2.5% and DIAMOND COMIC DISTRIBUTORS raise there prices on the very same day by between 5% and 15%.
Yes its true.
You are all so screwed, and so am i.
here is a segment of an email i received.

Price increases:

We are taking this opportunity to announce certain increases in the prices of products sold by Diamond Comic Distributors to take effect from Monday 8th December 2008.

We have attempted for as long as possible to delay the introduction of the new prices.  However, as you will no doubt be aware, the exchange rate between the pound and US dollar has deteriorated significantly over the past two months.

Early this year, the rate was in excess of US$2 to the £1 but more recently it has reached a low of less than US$1.50 to the £1.  This represents a fall in value of some 25% since the summer.

In addition, there have been significant increases in Air and Sea shipping costs, all of which have contributed to a marked increase in the costs which have been incurred by Diamond.

Please find below details of the new price tables for comics, books.

The new prices will be introduced on Monday 8th December for US products not yet published, products in stock and products available to order from the publishers.

We will continue to monitor exchange rates and of course advise you of any subsequent price changes at the earliest opportunity.

Meanwhile, if you have any queries concerning the details that are attached please do not hesitate to contact me, or your Customer Services Representative.

With best wishes

John Hitchen

General Manager

Diamond Comic Distributors

Now let me explain why i am angry, apart from feeling like i have just experienced anal rape without protection.

we all know that over the last eight years or so that President Bushes handling of the American economy has resulted in the dollar being worth next to nothing, two dollars to the pound has been the norm, worst possible case its been $1.98 to the pound,
with me so far, good. and the lowest Diamond have been charging us £0.65p to the dollar retail, and we had to wait a fair while for them to drop it to that. but as soon as the exchange rate falls a bit they raise the charges immediatally, i wonder, if, the exchange rate were to drop back down to $2.00 to the pound tomorrow, would they return the prices to the already anal shafting levels they were before, of course not, they will tell you, "but the administration costs involved in changing the pricing structures would be unnecessary should the rate slip back in a week, so we will wait to see what happens, and wait, and wait, and wait, and wait.
However as soon as the exchange rate goes the other way, within hours, they are on it.
But what i really want to know is, being as i have paid over the odds over the last eight years or so, can i have my back pay now?

Here is the new prices for Graphic novels for you to ponder.

"US Book Prices: here are the new retail prices Diamond will change from 8th December.  The prices will apply to graphic novels, manga, trade collections and novels etc.  These are the most common prices; contact you Customer Services representative for a comprehensive list."

               $7.99                       £5.99     50p more, RUNAWAYS TP VOL.1

               $9.99                       £7.50     1.00 more, A manga book

               $12.99                     £9.99     1.50 more, catwoman when in rome tp

               $14.99                     £10.99    1.00 more, Batman year one

               $19.99                     £14.99    2.00 more, Sandman tp

               $24.99                     £18.99    2.00 more, Civil War tp

And you know what the worst part is, if i am unhappy with these prices and the stingey dicounts the UK comic shops get, then TUFF!
Its not like i can take my businness else where is it Evil or Very Mad

I feel sick Exclamation
CatFang

This is everything that is wrong with the current system.

Also many of the issues that publishers get blamed for are due to Diamond not providing the service they are paid (an awful lot) for, after making indy publishers jump through many many hoops to even get in previews - maybe I will post more on that later.

This is why I am currently working with Shane Chebsey of Smallzone and a lot of the UK publishers to set up an alternative that should be much better for retailers, publishers and readers.

Of course it will only be for indy books, which I realise is not where the main part of most comic shops' business is from - but it is a start.

As soon as we have it up and running I'll post about it here, but I'll drop you an email from my Insomnia account to let you know more beforehand.

It will also help with one of the problems that we hear from retailers and readers - that it is really hard to find out about indy books, and how to know if they are worth taking a chance on.

Oh- btw I have not been around much as I have been phenomonally busy and have had a very serious problem with my back - but I should be back in action very soon with lots of news about what I have been up to.

And today is our 16th anniversary  Wink
Robin The Boy Wonder

OK, first things first, I'd like to congratulate CatFang on their 16th anniversary and to commiserate with the back problems. I have had some problems myself recently (although likely not as bad as it could have been) so understand a little how you've been feeling.

***

The funny thing is, I can believe that Diamond put their prices up the same day. It's precisely the anally retarded thing they would do at such a time, particularly at a time when we're all suffering from a global recession. Naturally, Diamond will do the opposite of what everyone else is doing in such difficult times and put their prices up.

Interestingly, this also comes at a time when a rumour has started floating in the American markets about how some comic companies (Marvel, for one) are considering raising their prices from a standard $2.99 to a standard $3.99.

Yep, you read that right. A whole dollar.

American comic readers are unhappy at the idea (and so, I suspect, will everyong else be if the rumour turns out to have some nasty truth behind it) and are already campaigning against it on some comic forums (Newsarama, for one). Marvel haven't publicly commented on this, although many suspect they will use the usual excuse of a rise in the price of paper. Which begs the reply of why they don't simply return to newsprint-style paper if that is indeed the case.

I wonder if Diamond raising their prices has anything to do with this rumour or if the powers-that-be at Diamond are simply a group of overbearing, unsympathetic, out-of-date, boom & bust-driven arseholes. Of course, it would also be nice if they had some actual competition for comic distribution. Sadly, Diamond monoplise this particular market and, until an alternative can be found and implemented successfully, it's likely going to remain this way.

So, yes, I'm pissed!
Batmanuel

I have calmed down a bit, not a lot, but a bit, you both have very valid thing st say on this subject and i will try and cut to the chase so as i don't bore the pants off of you, so here goes.

The first thing that strikes me here is and i quote

John Hitchin (Diamonds General Manager) wrote
Quote:
We have attempted for as long as possible to delay the introduction of the new prices.  However, as you will no doubt be aware, the exchange rate between the pound and US dollar has deteriorated significantly over the past two months.


You Fucking liar Exclamation

I have been a retailer for 20 fucking years, and you are going to try and pull this bullshit on me?

you insult my intelligence by a margin unlike any margin of docile stupidity one can insult someones intelligence by.

Let me explain why. Just in case its you how's stupid and you actually believe this crap

Way back when i remember a very similar situation, it would have been in the early nineties, of course it was Titan Distributors then, same soup different kitchen.

the dollar was worth 50p we were paying 60p to the dollar at retail on comics and 65p to the dollar to books and collections, trade paper back were still in infancy, and were later to become known as Graphic Novels.

Many times it was asked, when are your prices going to reflect the real exchange rate? and always the answer would be the same,

The amount of work involved changing the entire price structure makes it prohibitive should this be but a dip in the exchange rate, we will wait and see it it settles down, when we feel that it seems like its permanent, we will adjust it.

i used to hate having to cover up the 50 pence publisher printed price and have to argue with some customers as to why i was over charging them.

Well we waited and we waited and a considerable time later, I am talking in years here not months Titan which was close to becoming Diamond conceded that they would indeed drop the price a bit.

Well fuck me sideways if the exchange rate didn’t plummet within the next week or so, and within 24 hours They raised there prices by 12 ½ percent to compensate, what happened to, we well wait and see if it settles down as this may just be a blip???

We never did get our price decrease, and we never got a rebate for all of the mony we had overpaid.

And then Diamond brought Titan and a true Monopoly was born.

I asked a high ranking employee if now that we were part of the global giant which was Diamond would the UK retailer get the same benefits as the American retailers in terms of fair discounts.

The reply was quite shocking.

Nah, he said, we don’t want you comic dealers seeing just how much you have been fleeced for, do we.
This was said in a very flippant manner with a joking tone, it must have been the look on my face, (I do tend to display what I am thinking facially) but he stopped dead, stuttered, and said shakily, only joking, to late, the string of verbal abuse had already started, and I was NOT going to leave without venting my anger at being taken for a dipstick. I couldn’t believe what I had just been told, and the look of embarrassment on the fellows face told me that it was a situation of, many a true word said in jest.
The employees name was Pat Sullivan.

And anyone who is anyone knows this name, and although I have the deepest respect for Pat as an individual,
I will name an shame.

Catfang Wrote
Quote:
This is why I am currently working with Shane Chebsey of Smallzone and a lot of the UK publishers to set up an alternative that should be much better for retailers, publishers and readers.


Nice, but I fear its not enough, both Cold Cut and Red Route have attempted this in the past, and trust me I don’t want to piss on your parade, you are at least trying to chance things, but like other industries which have been stitched up by the big boys, I fear that the only way to make any difference is to break the strangle hold Diamond has on the big four, and until that happens the best we can expect is crumbs.
Am I being harsh, yes I am, but its real, that’s what its going to take. That or every single retailer and every single fan boy sacrifices one months worth for orders in order to make a point, as in we don’t order anything, the previews for that month comes in at NIL, that would install some fear!

And then do it for three months, hey we all have comic collection, dig out those long forgotten gems, and re read them.

The underlining message here is, without us they are NOTHING.

Cat I hope you are not offended by these comments, and I would like to help in any way I can, time permitting, I would critically be prepared to order Indies from yourselves.

Cat:
Quote:
Oh- btw I have not been around much as I have been phenomenally busy and have had a very serious problem with my back

My heart goes out to you, having suffered sciatica, nightmare doesn't come close, hope you get well soon.

Boy Wonder:

Quote:
Interestingly, this also comes at a time when a rumour has started floating in the American markets about how some comic companies (Marvel, for one) are considering raising their prices from a standard $2.99 to a standard $3.99.

Yep, you read that right. A whole dollar.


Problem for us is a dollar can mean anything diamond want it to mean, in the states a dollar is a dollar.
But a standard $2.99 to a standard $3.99. Is by any standards being shafted, hell what happened to a 25 cents increase?

Quote:
Marvel haven't publicly commented on this, although many suspect they will use the usual excuse of a rise in the price of paper. Which begs the reply of why they don't simply return to newsprint-style paper if that is indeed the case.

How very eloquently put, i would like to see them argue themselves out of this little gem, nice one Boy Wonder, Nice one.
Boy Wonder:
Quote:
I wonder if Diamond raising their prices has anything to do with this rumour or if the powers-that-be at Diamond are simply a group of overbearing, unsympathetic, out-of-date, boom & bust-driven arseholes.

I suspect that this has always been the case, its just that now they don't wear a Durex while the fuck you over.
Boy Wonder:
Quote:
Diamond monopolise this particular market and, until an alternative can be found and implemented successfully, it's likely going to remain this way.

Yep, or until we band together and say fuck you Exclamation

I hope i haven't ranted too much, and i hope that you understand where i am coming from, and i am sure that reading some of the comments placed here that you do indeed understand.

you know what makes me sick, its people like me and you who for years have pioneered the comic medium, we always knew it was cool, and we have received a fair bit of stick for it,  now the money men have control, (as seen in the latest Movie Blockbusters) and along with the DVD, Blue Ray, Graphic Novel, Action Figure, Video Game, etc etc etc.

Who watches the Watchmen? its only taken them 22 years to catch up with us, bless their cotton socks Razz

If there are any typos on this post, sorry, its late and me and Alan are going off to play my new X-Box 360 Smile

One favor i would ask, anyone with any trade connections, any Internet connections, any comic forum connections, please please please make a noise, post post post, quote me if you like, i stand by everything i have said.

if all else fails vote with your feet, and don't buy Exclamation  and this coming from a retailer who living depends on sales, shows how angry i am.
CatFang

No, not offended at all.

I completely agree with what you say. I know what we are doing is only going to be a drop in the ocean for now, but revolutions take time, my friend  Laughing

I really want to see the Diamond monopoly broken.  As you say - without us they are nothing, so why do we allow them to behave like this? These things can be changed though - look at what has happened to how other industries (banking, music etc) have been forced to change.

It was set up in a different world, for a different purpose, and if it is not interested in changing (which it quite obviously isn't) then we all, as readers, retailers and creators (and there is a big cross over in those groups), need to find better and different ways to get us what we want.

I was even told by one publisher that when he rang up to see why his book had not been sent out to retailers who were ringing himup to complain the person at Diamond he got on the phone said "uh - what's a graphic novel?".

As I have been talking to more publishers at cons etc I have been asking "what is it exactly Diamond does (or at least is supposed to do) for you for all that money and hassle that we could not do ourselves?"


Often it is like a light goes on as people realise that Diamond has pulled a great trick here for many years. They told publishers that the only way to get books into shops was through them. And publishers believed them. Hell, maybe it was true years ago, but it is certainly not now.

Did you know that the best selling comic of this year was Gears of War with 450 000 copies? Did you also know that only 10% of those sales were through the direct Diamond route?

My personal feeling is that Diamond are actually contributing to the demise of specialist shops. Whether this is a conscious decision is something I don't know, but it certainly seems to connive against indy publishers.

For those who don't know the process to get into previews (which is now shipped to only 110 specialist retailers in the uk and 5000 in the states) for an indy you have to:

* Get a contact at Diamond to return a call or email (this can take months)
* Submit a copy of your book for them to "assess the quality"
* Wait months, go round in circles resubmitting, getting fobged off, being told your copy has been lost can you send another etc
* submit your 50 words of previews text and image (and hope it gets printed in the right month' edition)
*Give Diamond almost a 70% cut of the price they sell to retailers for (meaning the prices have to go up to cover printing etc)
*Find out your book did not ship to the retailers who ordered it
*Have to deal with the bad reputation issues your company can get for late shipping etc which are nothing to do with you as you supplied the books on time and they are just languishing in Diamond's warehouse.
* (I have heard this from others, not experienced it yet) having your tiny ad slot in previews dropped because you did not get 1000 direct orders in one month although this was not in the contract

And to be honest - does 50 words and a postage stamp sixed cover image persuade you to buy anything from a company or creator you might not have heard of before - if you even read previews?

Certainly from a reader perspective finding out about a new book through a review, online discussion, podcast, magazine interview, recommendation from someone I trust etc is what makes me try something new.

what a ranty thread this is
Laughing
Batmanuel

CatFang:
Quote:
My personal feeling is that Diamond are actually contributing to the demise of specialist shops. Whether this is a conscious decision is something I don't know, but it certainly seems to connive against indy publishers.

Indeed it would seem that they are helping to contribute to the Comic Shop demise, and the one thing that i didn't mention in last nights angry rant was that how the hell can i sustain a price rise when the big booksellers are already undercutting me by one third in a buy two get one free campaign?

And why are these large chain stores being given the benefits to be able to do this? fucked if i know,
but it makes me sick when i see it happen.

Now don't get me wrong, i am all up for the same thing as everyone else, to pay less, and if you can get three for the price of two, brilliant, that's not the problem, the problem is that the comic retailer cant compete with this as it is, let alone after a price increase.

Here's a case in point, i recently made a request to purchase a considerable quantity of Watchmen Tpb's on a fixed purchase, that's no sale or return, once purchased if i didn't sell them, tuff.
what i wanted was a price which would allow me to make the minimum standard industry discount, and compete with the same price i had seen them for sale in Zavvi, i was refused, not only was i refused but all other watchmen orders seem to disappear from my orders, this included a 12 copy floor display?

i suppose i shouldn't have had the gull to ask for more.

All i want is a level playing field, its that simple.
Reaper

I was always under the impression that monopolies were illegal, should be brought to the attention of Trading Standards?
Batmanuel

Reaper:
Quote:
I was always under the impression that monopolies were illegal, should be brought to the attention of Trading Standards?

It is, and it was, but there are loopholes, ask Bill Gates.

I don't know all the ins and outs of Diamonds dealings, i do know that when they brought Titan they came under scrutiny.

but because there was at least one small distributor who was dealing in indies only they wriggled out of it.

its the stranglehold exclusives that need to be addressed, however on the Trade paper back front, we have both Panini and Titan Books publishing a certain amount of Marvel DC and Dark horse titles for the UK, which again is sited as competition and thus not a monopoly.

Its all very clever politics, and its what happens to business when the Fan-boy element is replaced by suits whose only interest is sales targets
Robin The Boy Wonder

There's a thought.

Who do The Booksellers order from?

Many of their TPB's or Graphic Novels appear to not be Titan Books or Panini published and would seem to be precisely the same as those you would order direct from Diamond.

Do they use Diamond or do they source from a different supplier?

I would wager the latter. Booksellers in particular seem to be performing rather well with their comic fanbase, particularly in stores like Bluewater or Lakeside (believe me, Canterbury's offering is actually quite pathetic compared to the other two). They very reguarly offer promotions at these stores, as Bats mentioned, but they still need to turn a profit, something I don't see them doing if they order through Diamond.

I know I' said the W word (thats OK its been noted) on this website but it seems a valid question to me; one I don't know the answer to and one I would like an answer for. After all, if it's good for the goose...
CatFang

As a publisher with trades to sell you can either go through Diamond Books (owned by Diamond but run by a separate office) who take a huge cut, but handle distribution to all the book store chains for you, or set up several arrangements with each chain / shop yourself.

As Bats has alluded to in his earlier post, the terms for big chains supplied by Diamond in this way are very different to those offered to smaller independent shops (bookshops or comic shops)

The Diamond books model (at least from a publisher side) is quite different to the standard one for floppies. - eg lower % of cover price as a cut, different prerequisites on order numbers etc. I think I also remember that there is a sale or return option for the bigger accounts as well.

Also a big difference for the chains is that they may order thousands of books to a central warehouse and then handle internal distribution themselves. As Diamond charge very high distribution charges per shop this would also allow them to make savings.

I do know that Booksellers section managers have a certain amount of personal freedom in what they order in - so it may just be that the branches you mention have someone who knows more about comics that the one in Canterbury.

Provided you can handle the stock distribution it is better for both the retailer and the publisher to deal direct with each other - something that Insomnia is doing, for example.
Batmanuel

Here is a reply by John Hitcin Diamond Distributors UK

Dear Manny

Many thanks for your recent email and apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

I am sorry that you feel we have not been as helpful as you would have liked. I would mention, hover, that we have always tried to set fair prices, taking into account not only the exchange rates but also our costs of shipping, pick/pack and delivery.

At this stage, we felt we had no option but to move our prices – we did not actually increase prices for some extended period, despite the rather dramatic fall in the value of Sterling.

Realistically, we would have to expect that the price increase may lead to reduced sales volumes and this may be inevitable. We would never want the trading levels to fall but we were seeing our margins reduced by such a significant degree that we could not continue to hold our prices at the previous levels.

Please let me know if you have any queries or require any further details from me at this stage.

With best wishes

John

and here is my reply to that email

Dear John

First let me take the time to thank you for your reply, i am sure that you have a busy schedule and i appreciate that you have taken the time to reply to what was a flippant and angry remark, this was not aimed at you personally but rather at diamond UK as a company for which you i suspect are just a cog in the ever winding machine.

I couldn't believe my eyes when i read your email concerning the price increase, had something happened overnight i asked myself, were we being punished for something? the last time i watched the news which was a couple days to a week at most the dollar was still at about 2 to the pound, and i also remember how the British retailer was kept waiting for diamond to drop its prices in the early days of the Bush administration to reflect the real world exchange rate.

i also remember the last time back in the nineties when the very same thing happened and i constantly had to argue with customers why i was charging what i was charging while the exchange rate was a 50p to the dollar, i would reply, because if i don't i cannot make a profit, it was simple maths.

you see that like many of the UK retailers i haven't been doing this for a year or two, i have twenty years under my belt, i even remember when you took over from Jess Deacon a gentleman which i had a great deal of respect for. so you see i am not entirely green, i am also not naive, i realize that like myself Diamond is a business and needs to profit.

i do remember being told by Pat Sullivan that Diamond didn't want the UK retailer to see how much he was being fleeced for when i asked him, now that Titan has become Diamond, does that mean we will get the same rights as our American counterparts?

what i also find insulting is the speed of which you increase prices in relation to the lack of speed which you take to decrease prices.

I am also extremely worried that the book sellers who are offering a buy 2 get 1 free on graphic novels on a regular basis (THIS REALLY NEEDS TO BE ADRESSED) are going to benefit even more from this, they are already offering the customer books at wholesale, 33% off, you don't have to be a mathematical genius to work out that if this continues the comic-store will not survive as more and more of the sales are now TPB's.

Why on earth would you want to buy a book for £14.99 when you can buy it up the road for £12.99, and if you buy two you get on for FREE!! i mean theres loyalty and then there is stupidity.

Oh and i can buy a Titan books with a 50% discount on amazon.

And i would have to be pretty gullible to believe that booksellers are only making 2% profit and amazon are taking a 15% loss now wouldn't i.

All i want is a level playing field, that's not to much to ask is it, if it continues as it is, i am not sure that i will want to continue making comics and graphic novels my mainstay, and may decide to invest my money in other industries which treat the retailer more fairly, some of which i am already doing business with, and have already taken a good 35% of my floorspace.

and finally, while the Government reduces VAT by 2.5% in, it seems almost suicidal to increase prices by more that 13%. and i feel is another nail in the already strained relationship between the UK retailer and Diamond Distributors.

Please do not feel the need to reply to this email, i have said some of what i need to say, and to be honest it wouldn't matter what excuses you were to use it really would fall on deaf ears, like i said, Ive been here for twenty years, and i am by no means stupid,
when it comes down to the point where all the comics shops are gone, and all that's left is the book sellers and the news agents, the Graphic Novel falls out of grace with Joe public, and you are queuing up in the job centre, don't say that i didn't warn you.

I apologize in advance if this email offends in anyway but i really do feel strongly on this.

All the best Manny for Whatever Comics

Boy Wonder:
[/quote]Who do The Booksellers order from?
Quote:

I have been told that its the Bertram Group, whoever that is, but i do know that diamond has supplied them in the past, also Diamond has its own Diamond Books department which stands outside of its comics section.
I wouldn't be allowed to order from them.
Do they use Diamond or do they source from a different supplier?
Quote:

Probably Diamond Books.


i have got these quotes all arse about face, and cant be bothered to corrct them, sorry.

oh and whats good for the goose is good for the gander? one would suppose so in a free country.

but then we dont live in a free country do we.
waffle

Wow.

That's just mental. Although, I daresay that most of us are such obsessive comic whores, that even if Manny had to boost all his prices up astronomically, we'd all find a way to maintain our pull lists.

Or am I alone in my slavish dedication to geekiness over financial wellbeing?
Robin The Boy Wonder

Firstly, and completely off-topic, I'm finding it really difficult replying to Bats at the moment - and I'm replying a lot to him - because of that bloody sig!!! Oh, you've got it coming... just you wait...  Wink

Anyway, back to topic.

There is a giant, gaping hole in Diamond's email to you, one so large that this should concern beyond the retailer, it's one that affects every company involved within the industry, from the smallest independent to the largest publishers.

Quote:
Realistically, we would have to expect that the price increase may lead to reduced sales volumes and this may be inevitable. We would never want the trading levels to fall but we were seeing our margins reduced by such a significant degree that we could not continue to hold our prices at the previous levels.


This is an admission from Diamond, a company who are responsible for the distribution for the majority of American comic books, that their actions may inevitably lead to reduced sales margins.

Take that in for a moment.

This isn't Marvel.

This isn't Top Cow.

This is Diamond. A comic book distributor stating clearly for all to see that they are likely affecting the sales margins of those companies who employ them to handle their distribution on their behalf. I wonder how Marvel Comics would react to this news; after all, I very much doubt they want any third party company affecting their profit margins, do they?

This is a very serious statement on their part. It affects every UK based retailer (I wonder if they've implemented anything similar in the USA; after all, if they're going to increase prices for one, I daresay they'll repeat the trick elsewhere with different excuses to cover the bluster) and, get this, almost every comic book publisher trading in North America too!

Immoral and irresponsible are two words that spring to mind here. I can understand just how and why Bats is so passionate about this subject. I'm reading his email chain with Diamond here and I'm getting seriously pissed off toward them too.

How dare they affect the financial stability of the industry I love and wholeheartedly support. How dare they make decisions that only a comic book publisher should be making.

Over the next 12 months, I think we should all take a look at the sales figures closely and see how many comics suffer a decline in sales due to their decision-making. And if profits do slip for these companies, I wonder how many will take a sideways glance toward their distribution partner for answers.

I wonder how many other UK retailers are annoyed with this move.
Batmanuel

well flip me sideways and call me a twizzel stick, the good old boy wonder makes some hugely interesting points here, nice one boysie nice one.
and as Waffle has brought it up.
As for a price increase in the store well yes, and no, although i will be paying more for my comics than before even the exchange rate fell at the beginning of the Bush years and continued to fall during said years i Wont be putting my prices up on comics, Graphic Novels yes, comics no. i just cannot absorb the increase on Graphic Novels, my margins are just to low.
I sell a lot of Cards and Merchandise in this new position i now hold in St. Peters Street and plan to use these sales to subsidise the comics.
Put it this way, companies i buy the stuff i sell to tourists like posters and badges give the retailer a much fairer crack of the whip than Diamond ever have, i also intend to look further afield, for sometime i have felt like i am being raped by diamond and in time i want to diminish their strangle hold on me, anything and everything i can get elsewhere i will, hopefully this will result in a stronger shop, and enable me to continue doing what i love, and that's buying, selling, reading and breathing comics, even Diamond cant dampen that, although they seem to be doing all they can to do just that.

PS. So impressed with these comments i have decided to ad them to my blog, full credits where credit was due, thanks for the input.
seehttp://www.whatevercomics.com/#/blog/4528040589for details.

and i quite like the new signiture Smile
Robin The Boy Wonder

Y'see, occasionally, I can offer an intelligent post.

It may be the first this year but...  Wink

I've had a glance at your blog. I'm very grateful you liked my comments and felt compelled to use them for your blog too. When I wrote that last night, I meant every single word. Re-reading them tonight, I feel exactly the same.

So, thanks, mate. I owe you one.  Cool
CatFang

I might hazard a guess that as independent comic shops are an increasingly endangered species - around 110 only, give or take, in the UK perhaps them going out of business is not going to affect Diamond's bottom line that much.

What is perhaps being missed, though, in this "social engineering" is the potential brand damage. Comics readers are a pretty loyal bunch, and where you buy something is not only about the price, that is just one factor of many.

I can't remember if I mentioned it before, but according to lying in the gutters the best selling comic of 2008 was Gears of War #1 from Wildstorm at 450 000 copies. Only 10% of these were sold through Diamond and the direct market though.

If the current system is no longer meeting needs and no longer viable people will look for other alternatives. Diamond direct is not the only way to get products - and as price is not the only reason for buying from somewhere, neither is historical precedent nor it just being easier. Perhaps the people making these decisions should be be more careful about whose throats are being cut.

Bats - I've started a discussion about this from the business side over in Smallzone. I know you've not had chance to be over there for a bit, but I think lots of people there would like to see copies of the emails / hear about the conversations you have had if you get the chance to pop over.
Batmanuel

Boy Wonder:
Quote:
Y'see, occasionally, I can offer an intelligent post.

You always offer an intelligent post, misguided at times, but always intelligent Very Happy what i like about you is at times you tend to analise things from a completely different angle, and on this occasion one i had completely overlooked but none the less was really important.

CatFang:
Quote:
Bats - I've started a discussion about this from the business side over in Smallzone. I know you've not had chance to be over there for a bit, but I think lots of people there would like to see copies of the emails / hear about the conversations you have had if you get the chance to pop over.


I will try and get over there soon, interesting points you bring up here, i do feel that Diamond doesn't really care about its small comic book dealers, the combined output of these shops could probably be picked up by the FP and booksellers chains in much the same way as all of the independent fan run music and record shops were gobbled up by big business.

In the long run the music industry suffered for it, in trading the small outlets for Supermarket volume sales, the music industry took its eye off the ball in so far as it as it sacrificed longlivety for an instant buck.

we can see this trend in the comics industry in the shape of so called Graphic Novels.

by repackaging the comic book into a book and offering it out at deep discounts in order to get the medium socially accepted and stocked by volume sellers, this industry will it time suffer, when the Graphic Novel bubble bursts and you can only buy the bestsellers, then the resulting implosion will leave the industry in a worse state than it was before the boom, Joe public will move on to the next in thing and the true comic fan will feel cheated, and disillusioned at the deluge of crap that's been put out to feed the frenzy that he will probably go and just download what he wants and leave the crap on the shelf.
Robin The Boy Wonder

I'm not as convinced that the Graphic Novel, or TPB, bubble will burst...

In Marvel's case, selling TPB's makes them an awful lot of money, particularly after an era whereby they went bankrupt. It's also had a very positive effect on other, smaller, imprints, particularly Vertigo's. That said, I can see how the TPB has a detrimental effect on the comic book retailer.

Wow! I think we have our next debate, folks!

But that's a different topic for a different thread. And one I'm not starting tonight... I have chores!
Batmanuel

The bubble always bursts, in one way or another.

I have been contacted by an angry retailer from Essex, who like myself is astonished that while retail struggles and shops are closing down left right and centre, (and not just little concerns as we all by now know about Woolworth's and Zavvi to mention just two) that Diamond are more concerned with there margins than they are about the people who help them make those margins.
Also angry that when the dollar is weak against the pound Diamond use a wait and see approach to lowering the price, but as soon as the dollar strengthens the price increase is as quick as The bastard son of Quicksilver, and as fast as a FLASH of red.

Just as soon as he sends me the transcript of a letter he sent to Diamond US.
I will of course share it with you all.

You know what we could do with! a cheap monthly news rag which is as relevant to the buyer as it is to the seller, a industry voice, a place where everyone who cares about comics will attend without being asked to, you know what i mean, like comics international used to be Crying or Very sad
God

Ultimately Diamond don't care about the people they supply because they know that for every shop that ultimately falls there will be something that takes it's place, even if it's just online sales going up and thus more stock sent to online retailers. Plus you can't get the stuff from anybody else, so they know they can pretty much charge you whatever they like and get away with it.

The thing the industry needs is more competition, until that happens you're doomed to suffer. Doomed!

Speaking of which, I should be in next week to look through some back issues, so at least you should make some money off that.  Wink
Robin The Boy Wonder

It's still just as galling now as it was a month ago.

Remember this one when we run the Whatever Comics Awards over the next month. After all, it does qualify for Worst of the Worst...

Speaking of Awards (and since most people seem to have read, or contributed to this thread), I'll be preparing the nomination thread sometime next week. It should give some people to catch up on their December comic reading, after all...
Batmanuel



Now, if you saw this bar-code printed on the back of a book in a shop you would assume that when you took it up to the counter to pay for it you would get change from a fiver, yes?
Wrong.
Its £7.50.
How the fuck did you work that one out? i hear you ask.
Its called the Diamond school of counting, i kid you not.
CatFang

Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm psychic, me.

Latest in the Diamond Saga...

Fans of indies better stop relying on Diamond (although I'm sure they don't).

Lucky I'm working to try and set up an alternative for publishers, readers and retailers (who, let's be honest, often cross over a lot) RIGHT NOW with some like minded people.
CatFang

Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm psychic, me.

Latest in the Diamond Saga...

Fans of indies better stop relying on Diamond (although I'm sure they don't).

Lucky I'm working to try and set up an alternative for publishers, readers and retailers (who, let's be honest, often cross over a lot) RIGHT NOW with some like minded people.
Andy Bloor

Not good at all is it for small press publishers... what have you in mind Nic, is it something that we at Accent UK can benefit from?
CatFang

Absolutely.

I'll drop you an email.

I'm not being deliberately cryptic here, I just can't announce it until it is all ready to go.

Actually one of the things that proved to us that this idea could work is how well Wolfmen sold at Whatever.
Batmanuel

Quote:
As Slave Labor chief Dan Vado explained in an e-mail (published with Vado’s consent) to Tom Spurgeon, the new $2500 benchmark means that each book needs to generate $2500 worth of revenue to Diamond – a total on a purchase order for the book. In Slave Labor’s case, that means $6000 in retail sales, based on the discount SLG gives to Diamond in order to be listed in Diamond’s Previews and distributed via the company.

Thought i would pluck this little gem out of the Newsarama article posted by Cat.... anyone care to do the sums here?

Good luck on the venture, i would like to say it will be an easy ride for you, but it wont,

1st you need to get the retailer off of his fat lazy arse,

2nd once you have got him off of his fat lazy arse you will need to keep him there with constant aggressive marketing, and weekly phone calls, (need anything type calls) and a low minimum order.

3rd off once you have become a force to be reckoned with, you will need to convince the exclusive publishers that being exclusive is counter productive,

4th off you need to make enough money to survive,

5th if you do become a force, then be prepared for a diamond onslaught compared only by that of Israel's reply to a Palestinian rocket.

I wish you well Smile
Andy Bloor

If that's the case and we don't know the extent this may affect Accent UK yet (as that's Dave and Colin's side of it, I'm just the design monkey)... this doesn't sound like good news for us... and for the future of Wolfmen...
CatFang

I don't fear Diamond!

All this tell me is that they have no idea how the world is changing and their buisness is in trouble.

Once they only distribute Marvel and DC why would those 2 pubishers want to pay a middle man? It would be cheaper to do it themselves.
Red Robot

This latest move by Diamond won't effect Accent UK ... both Colin and I are fortunate in that we have solid day jobs (touch wood) that enable us our little hobby (and we don't let the wives know how much it all costs :0) ... Accent Uk has never been about making money (although it's always a bonus when a book turns black from red as it lets us make more) so we'll continue as we are.
I see no reason for this to change anything in that repsect ... the only problem really is that it'll take us longer to shift copies and that means that we won't be able to print new stuff as quickly as we'd like but will have to wait until cashflow and floor space allow it .. currently we aim at 1 anthology and 2 one shots a year ... I guess in the current climate that'll have to stay the model ...
It's tough times all over these days ... I understand why Diamond are changing things in order to survive ... I do feel however that in so doing they are in danger of killing the industry ... certainly they will end up with fewer comics to distribute .. and when they are down to the big two plus a handful of others then they may look over their shoulder and see the competition, that they've allowed into being, creep up and take away their remaining business. In a way all of this may actually help stores like Whatever Comics. stores that stock more than the DC and Marvel stuff will suddenly find themselves attracting more customers ... as people looking for something different start to realise it is out there .. just not in Forbidden Planet or the local Waterstones ... I think the Independent creators should do more to publicise Independent Friendly stores .. maybe Andy could create a logo ... shops could use this where they stock Independent UK comics ... we in the publishing side can then list such comic shops in our books and on our websites ... I think this would be a good first step ...
This news is very recent but we are going to look to invest our efforts in a few stores around the UK ... get our stock to them .. build a relationship and do signing tours etc ... promoting the store and the fact that they sell our stuff as they help us get our books out there ... this is no bad thing but it will mean more effort from us (time away from the drawing board) and more reliance on stores ... currently Whatever Comics are fab .. and there's a few stores up North (local) but we need to work on more. I'm not included to waste any effort on Page 45 as they seem to prefer slice of life stuff ... which isn't our thing .. but we will look at others ...
The problem isn't so much the UK ... it's how the hell we get our stuff out to America and the rest of the world ... I had a report of Zombies selling in Perth .... no idea how we'll ever be able to acheive that without Diamond but it'll be fun trying ... hmmmm ... maybe I'll post an 'Accent UK Travel Request' to Colin ... I'll have to create one first of course Surprised(
So ... in short ... blimey I do ramble at times ... Diamond need to be very careful ... once we've got this sussed (and I'm very interested in the Smallzone thing) why would we ever go back to them ?
Batmanuel

A very interesting post by Red here.

Are Diamond driving a nail into the industry's coffin lid? and is it the final nail?

I don't want to see comics go the same way as Trading Cards went a few years ago, (actually it was quite a few years ago.)

I remember the explosion in this industry, there was a time that you could buy a trading card for just about anything.

Then someone got greedy, a price hike of nearly 30% at the net wholesale price saw people backing away, as what was once a reasonable priced hobby became a major investment, that and massive over production saw closeout deals which made the price originally paid by the collector seem like day light robbery.

The trading card industry (non sports) is pretty much dead in the water now, and only produces minimum runs on big names.

I cant emphathise enough that if the Comic Industry follows the path of a quick buck while we can it could put us back 30 years.

Remember TMNT?

i don't think Diamond is changing things to survive, i think that the corporate mentality of overall greed has rule, its as simple as that.
and why the fuck should they worry about the comic shop and the mart dealers now. they have gone beyond that now, and are only interested in volume sales. if they do honor the little mans account, then you sure as hell are going to be made to pay.

But ultimatlly Diamond are takeing us head long into an extinction event.

and sooner it happens the better... why? because the people who are left will be the people who care.

Quote:
Diamond need to be very careful ... once we've got this sussed (and I'm very interested in the Smallzone thing) why would we ever go back to them ?


Indeed.

Perth, hmm. i have family in Perth, an Uncle and Aunt who moved there back in the 60's the Aunt is my Mothers Sister and my uncle served with my father in the forces, my nephew spent 6 months with them a while ago, I wonder?
Nah!
Probably not.
But i did give my nephew a copy of both Zombies and Wolfmen as a gift,
and we have sent copies of Zombies as far as New Zealand Smile
Robin The Boy Wonder

I don't think we will ever know Diamond's full motivations for their business here.

Certainly, as with any business, they are profit-driven and I very much doubt they're actively seeking to destroy the industry as they likely enjoy some decent profit from it.

So, why are Diamond doing this...?

It would be interesting if we could establish what kind of profit Diamond have made over, say, the last five years and whether or not their profit margins have increased or diminished over, say, the last 18 months. We also need to establish what kind of money Diamond are making from offering independent titles, particularly following Marvel's recent 50% market-share dominance.

Are Diamond actually making any substantial profit from the smaller independent companies? The larger indies will likely remain unaffected; it's the smaller ones who will be affected here.

Please don't think I'm trying to excuse Diamond. I'm not; and, quite frankly, I'm sick of their pathetic excuses, both official and un-official. Let's be honest, we've seen enough on these pages alone to realise that their 'reasons' are blatantly transparent and can be easily torn apart. If anything, their frank admission that their decisions will affect comic sales reeks of unrepentant unprofessional tardiness on their part. However, we may also have to accept that only those higher up on the Diamond food chain know the true reasons behind their decision-making and those lesser fools who are fed to the industry press and the retailers are left to make rambling excuses on their behalf.

So, is this a bad thing...?

Well, no.

Diamond's price increase to UK retailers is a bad thing, particularly in the short-term with the UK in the middle of a global recession (finally, it's official). In the long term, those retailers who do survive (let's hope Whatever Comics is one of them, eh?) will probably emerge all the stronger for it and with, I suspect, other methods of realising the all-important sale.

Y'see, Diamond's decision can only possibly be made in a market where there is a monopoly. If Diamond had some actual competition to their distribution, the very last thing they would do is increase anything. They wouldn't take steps to potentially isolate the smaller independent because, quite simply, they would potentially become more reliant on their business.

Diamond need competition and, with their decision, they will likely create competition. Not immediately, perhaps; however, the smaller publisher may well decide to self-distribute and, taking that thought a step further, may actually decide to establish their own distribution business at the same time. Costs may initially be quite expensive; however, this matters little when compared to the actual intent of having the material in the hands of their audience.

It will likely take years but Diamond, rather than hammering the nails into the industry's coffin, may have actually sown the seeds of their own demise or, at the very least, some actual competition. Which may be one of the best things to ever happen to the industry.
Red Robot

It's odd to think that Diamond give preferential treatment to one shop over another but then I guess it isn't surprising. They probably favour the shops that I avoid. The large chain of stores that stock all manner of stuff and are manned by people who wouldn't know Jack Staff from Union Jack. I buy all my comics at the local 'comic' shop .. OK .. Dan sells toys and the odd set of cards .. I accept that ... but he knows his comics and will mention things that I've not picked up on ... my initial reason was, even though he has to charge a little more than stores like FP (I guess .. I've never actually checked), he is passionate about comics and is spreading the good word ... he appreciates my trade and treats me as a valued customer (and over the years a friend ... I hope) ... so .. back to the subject matter ... Diamond alienate the 'specialist' comic shops ... these guys by their nature are the smaller stores who by their nature are interested in comics as a medium as well as seeing them as a way to make cash .. these 'specialist' comic shops then find other ways to get comics that Diamond no longer ship ... they therefore develop an edge over the larger chains who can't be bothered understanding their product ... The idea of just getting the major titles is like Supermarkets stocking the latest books ... sure you get a quick sale but nobody goes into Tescos looking for a book .. you spot one in passing a pick it up because it's cheap ... but if you want to browse then you go to a book shop like Waterstones ... I think that if this goes to full extreme then people will go to specialist shops for comics ... and only buy from the larger chains if they happen to be passing ... I like the thought of Accent UK comics being sold in specialist comic stores much more than I do seeing them in the larger stores ... it means someone with an opinion has selected them for his/her store after a little research and not by a person who just scans down a long list ticking off all the Marvel and DC titles and then picking a few at random in order to fill the shelves ... There's a stall in a mrkeet up here in the North who is majoring on the stuff you can't get in FP and doing very nicely I believe ... people go to him for the Indie stuff and pick up there rest of their comics whilst they're there ... see ... it's starting already ...

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